Still utterly perplexed

I think I’ve asked this kind of question before, but so far haven’t heard any sensible responses. So, if any right-wing “the country is going to the dogs, nobody cares about morals or does any work any more, and we’ve let in millions of Muslims who want to kill us” types fancy enlightening me, please let me know…

What does it matter if a hundred thousand or a million Poles come to the UK? They’re hardworking, law-abiding, well-educated and largely have traditional moral values; they’re also white and Christian, which doesn’t bother me overmuch but seems to be the kind of thing you might approve of. Is it because they’re Catholic? Is it because you just hate anyone who isn’t English? Is it because you’re no bloody good at what you do so you’re worried they’ll steal your job? Or is there something I’ve missed…?

33 thoughts on “Still utterly perplexed

  1. Alan says:

    It is more to do with driving house prices up further, and as they come from a lower wages background they accept lower wages. But on the plus… they can drink, which has to be good!!

  2. Quim Terfel says:

    Because it’s convenient to blame all the country’s problems on someone else.

  3. zorro says:

    “you’re no bloody good at what you do so you’re worried they’ll steal your job?”

    Nice straw man – no I’m not worried that they will /steal/ my job. What they WILL do without any doubt is force down wage inflation. They undercut british workers and that’s not a good thing.

    Also we DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTUCTURE TO SUPPORT ALL THESE PEOPLE. (And in the South East, NO SIGN at all of any new infrastructure being built, no significant new roads, hospitals being shut etc etc)

    Also the Daily Express told me that these bulgarians are all organized criminals! ;)

  4. pdf says:

    Why the hell isn’t the undercutting of British workers a good thing? There’s a net gain to people overall (ie the Poles earn a lot more than they did, far more than Brits see their wages fall); if the benefit goes more to Kasimir than to Terry, I don’t see why I should view it as a bad thing.

    & I’ve not seen any evidence of the infrastructure point at all. School class sizes are far lower than 10 years ago; hospitals are treating more people (incidentally, anyone sane should support any hospital closure that happens. The increase in deaths caused by the inefficiency of small hospitals is /far/ greater than that caused by the additional travel time). And the only responsible outcome we can possibly take in transport terms is to cut the number of car-journeys-per-person, not to build new roads anyway.

    If the Poles help spur the government into proper road pricing, Thameslink and Crossrail, that’d be even better than their microeconomic effect…

  5. Niels says:

    Usual reason, there’s not enough money around to keep /everyone/ in Western luxury, not when you have to buy all those guns to maintain the status quo /and/ protect yourself from others in the Harrods’ Sale Massacre of life. Apparently.

    Look, we spent all this time and effort setting up international law and saying johnny-foreigner-come-latelys can’t start their own empire in honest competition, we can’t then allow a sneaky economic invasion, can we? That way, everyone will eventually earn the same amount of cash, and then where would we go on our stag nights?

    Niels.

  6. zorro says:

    Had I not been taxed to the brink of doing a Reggie Perrin, then I could maybe go along with this;

    “Why the hell isn’t the undercutting of British workers a good thing? There’s a net gain to people overall (ie the Poles earn a lot more than they did, far more than Brits see their wages fall);”

    But thanks to Gordo the obese money grabbing cud chewing cunt, as far as I am concerned the Poles etc can fuck off, I don’t care if the net sum is gain if /I/ am going to lose YET MORE money.

    “I’ve not seen any evidence of the infrastructure point at all. ”

    Well you obviously haven’t driven on any roads in the South East of England recently!

    “School class sizes are far lower than 10 years ago; ”

    Given how much my council tax is, I should FUCKING HOPE SO.

    “hospitals are treating more people ”

    Really, does the increase match the increase in tax going into the NHS? Are waiting lists /really/ down as much as (za)nulabor would have you think? Or have they simply stopped people going ONTO the waiting lists in the first place, hiding the real figures? I’ll leave you to work it out for yourself..

    “(incidentally, anyone sane should support any hospital closure that happens. The increase in deaths caused by the inefficiency of small hospitals is /far/ greater than that caused by the additional travel time).”

    What? Where do you get this from? How the fuck do you measure the ‘number of deaths caused by the inneficiency of small hospitals’ (presumably when compared to nice efficient enormous hospitals?)

    Do you have //any fucking idea// of the importance of being dealt with quickly when you need an A&E??

    “And the only responsible outcome we can possibly take in transport terms is to cut the number of car-journeys-per-person, not to build new roads anyway.”

    Perhaps one way of limiting the growth of car journeys might be to stop millions more people coming to the country?

    Just how many non essential journeys do you think people make in the cars these days, given the rate of tax on motoring? I drive to work, home from work, occasionally visit a relative or go shopping. Thats IT. Tax me more on motoring and I will leave the smegging country. You might think thats a good thing but if enough people like me feel the same, the rest of you are going to have a significant amount of extra tax to pay to make up for us…

  7. Quim Terfel says:

    “Tax me more on motoring and I will leave the smegging country.”

    Well you’d better hope some other country has a dire shortage of Professional Whining Cunts.

  8. zorro says:

    Quim, there’s plenty of countries out there short of people with my skillset.

    And I’m /not/ “whining” – I am complaining.

    Argue with some of my points rather than calling me names if you want to make a point. (btw You cunt!) ;)

  9. Quim Terfel says:

    “Argue with some of my points rather than calling me names if you want to make a point.”

    Okay, here’s a good argument: You’re an obese money grabbing cud chewing cunt and as far as I am concerned the you can fuck off.

  10. pdf says:

    More of this kind of thing, please.

  11. Quim Terfel says:

    I’d argue properly, but why bother when they have the same grasp of economics as a 1970s Trade Union boss?

    Wonder why they’re not demanding we stop Chinese imports because they depress the wages of British workers…

  12. zorro says:

    Shows what you know you useless fucking cunt.

    My family income puts me not far over the breadline. I have no kids so get no kickbacks from funky gordon.

    I’m not fat, in fact I’d be willing to bet you a pint that unless you are a midget I weigh less than you. (although the lack of anything grey matter between your ears may skew the weight slightly!)

    On the other hand, Gordon Brown IS a moneygrabber. He IS obese. He DOES chew the cud (or something, 50 pound notes? gum?) and he is UNDOUBTEDLY A CUNT.

    Come on argue against my points if you can mr thicko. You’ve obviously got the same grasp of public opinion as our dear leader! Fuckwit

  13. zorro says:

    “Why the hell isn’t the undercutting of British workers a good thing? There’s a net gain to people overall (ie the Poles earn a lot more than they did, far more than Brits see their wages fall); if the benefit goes more to Kasimir than to Terry, I don’t see why I should view it as a bad thing.”

    You might not see it as a bad thing but you are FUCKING STUPID if you don’t think “Terry” will see that as a bad thing…

  14. Quim Terfel says:

    “My family income puts me not far over the breadline.”

    Well fuck me, you must have a shit job! No wonder you’re afraid of the Poles taking it off you!

  15. Quim Terfel says:

    I’ll bet “Terry” thinks it’s fucking great when “Terry” wants a plumber or a builder or a fifteen quid hotel room. Unless “Terry” is just a whining fuckwit, that is.

  16. zorro says:

    You’re not Gordon Brown are you? You debate in just the way I expect from za~nu-labour. Don’t like the message? attack the messenger.

    Still no DEBATE. You are obviously not capable of debate.

    “I’d argue properly, but why bother when they have the same grasp of economics as a 1970s Trade Union boss?”

    So enlighten me oh great one! (Yeah right, expecting a proper debate from someone like you is like expecting results from a labour govt. Lets be honest; It /aint/ gonna happen!)

    So far I’ve elicited FOUR replies out of you, each one calling me names, but you haven’t even countered ONE of my points yet.

    Do you really think your namecalling is going to convince anyone that your point of view is valid?

    I’ll leave it to readers of this blog to decide who is correct.

  17. zorro says:

    Do you really think we still have a shortage of plumbers? Are you still living in the year 2001? Fuckwit.

  18. Quim Terfel says:

    Make that a *pompous*, whining fuckwit.

  19. Quim Terfel says:

    With a serious persecution complex, to boot.

  20. PDF says:

    Quim does have a serious point: if you are genuinely near the breadline, you can cut your fucking whining about tax right now, because you pay fuck all and you know it. nobody poor pays or needs to pay serious tax in this country.

    come to think of it, the money I semi-grudgingly despatch to gordon each year probably /subsidises/ you.

  21. Larry Teabag says:

    Zorro,

    I’ll leave it to readers of this blog to decide who is correct.

    Well my vote goes to anyone except you.

  22. Quim Terfel says:

    And, anyone who actually types the phrase “za~nu-labour” into their computer thinking it indicates anything other than the fact that they are a know-nothing fuck has outed themselves as a fucking cunt anyway.

    And this tosser DEMANDS to be taken seriously! What the fuck has happened to the world? Has The Right (I assume that is how he would class himself, brave fuck-all-wage-worker that he is) become the New Loony Left, or what?

    Give me strength…

  23. zorro says:

    “Well my vote goes to anyone except you.”

    Well whoopee-fucking-do. Thats Quim, You, Gordo and Tony against me and >200,000 daily express readers.

    Where my dear Quim have I /demanded/ anything? All I’d like is for you or anyone else to actually debate some points rather than just attacking me. I also notice NO-one has answered Alan’s very good point in the SECOND comment. Any thoughts on this or do you just dismiss it? Call Alan a cunt why don’t you, after all he’s disagreed with something you say, the fucking cheek of the guy!!

    “Quim does have a serious point: if you are genuinely near the breadline, you can cut your fucking whining about tax right now, because you pay fuck all and you know it. nobody poor pays or needs to pay serious tax in this country.”

    This shows your complete lack of understanding of the way things are. The poorest people in this country pay a larger proportion of their income as tax than the richest people in this country. This has INCREASED under this government. This is wrong and fucked up. So you are as much a twat as Quim. Get your fucking facts straight before posting and making yourself look like a complete fucking gimp.

    Dispute some of my points I DARE you!

    “I’ll bet “Terry” thinks it’s fucking great when “Terry” wants a plumber or a builder or a fifteen quid hotel room. Unless “Terry” is just a whining fuckwit, that is.”

    I’m fucking sure that Terry, who hasn’t had a pay rise in three years and is completely fucking skint because his council tax has gone through the fucking roof is going to be OVER-FUCKING-JOYED because his fucking blocked bog costs £10 less to fix. Come on, if this is the best you can come up with you’d better close your internet account, you are just making yourself look MORE stupid, as if that were possible.

    “And, anyone who actually types the phrase “za~nu-labour” into their computer thinking it indicates anything other than the fact that they are a know-nothing fuck has outed themselves as a fucking cunt anyway.”

    Anyone who absolutely REFUSES to actually debate ANY points at all with someone they disagree with and instead simply tries to get them to shut up by continuously calling them a cunt is a fucking sad excuse for a human being. You should forget the politics and go back to watching the fucking tellytubbies.

  24. Quim Terfel says:

    “All I’d like is for you or anyone else to actually debate some points rather than just attacking me.”

    If you actually had any points, they might. As it is you don’t, so tough fucking shit, I’ll just stick to calling you a pig shit thick whining fucking cunt.

    (You’re obviously badly in need of some help, so here’s some advice for free: get yourself the first fucking clue about economics and lose the “ah, but other people agree with me so I must be right” rhetoric.)

  25. zorro says:

    “If you actually had any points, they might”

    They? I knew you were fucking thick, I didn’t realise you were actually schizophrenic. Its /YOU/ attacking me you fuckwit!

    One point from Alan in Q2, still unanswered.

    Millions of people coming into the country (at a far greater rate than new affordable housing is being built) push up already over-inflated house prices (which incidentally DON’T count towards inflation figures, why the fuck is that?).

    Is this a good thing? You obviously think so, Why? Come on this should be easy for a economics /master/ such as yourself!

    Its /fucking/ obvious that the reason you won’t enter into any DEBATE is that your a CUNT who knows NOTHING. Pig Shit thick? If I’m pig shit thick, what the fuck does that make you, depleted uranium thick?

    Come on you little cunt, you’re not going to scare me off with names, you should have worked that out by now, try a new tactic!

  26. Quim Terfel says:

    “*you or anyone else*”

    Learn to fucking read what you wrote *yourself*, cunt.

  27. Quim Terfel says:

    To answer PDF’s original question “Or is there something I’ve missed…?”

    Nope, it doesn’t look like it.

    And whiny little “oooh, they’re coming over here and taking our jobs and taking our houses and it’s not fair I’ll scream and scream until I’m sick” brats like zorro should sit down, put aside the Daily Express and have a good long think (ouch, I know, it hurts) about why Kasimir is so much cheaper to hire in the first place. Think about where Kasimir comes from. Think about how they used to run things there. Think about how well /that/ worked…

  28. zorro says:

    “If you actually had any points, they might”

    I’m sorry oh godlike one, I didn’t realise you spoke for the rest of the fucking planet. You obviously KNOW that the reason no-one else is discussing this with me is that I have NO points, RATHER than the more likely option that is this blog only has about 20 readers, all of whom except you and me stopped looking at this page after the 10 seconds it took to read the original, rather snide post. Please apologise to the rest of the planet for me next time you speak to them all.

  29. zorro says:

    “and have a good long think about why Kasimir is so much cheaper to hire in the first place. Think about where Kasimir comes from. Think about how they used to run things there. Think about how well /that/ worked…”

    What the hell has that got to do with the original question?

    You think that somehow because these authoritarian communist regimes had strict controls on immigration (and emigration) that I’m advocating we move to communism? If you think that you should learn to

    Unsurprisingly you still haven’t answered the question. How is a million eastern europeans coming here going to affect house prices? Push them up, down or no effect?

    IS THIS A POINT?

    If you somehow think that all these people coming here AREN’T going to push up house prices, or that somehow the effect will be counteracted by some factor I’m not thinking of then PLEASE enlighten me oh great economist!

    ps Lets be honest for a moment, having your head that far up Gordon Fucking Brown’s fat arse does not make you an economist… Oh and say hi to Polly Toynbee for me while you’re up there

  30. zorro says:

    oops third paragraph of last post should end “learn to read a bit better”

  31. Larry Teabag says:

    Thats Quim, You, Gordo and Tony against me and >200,000 daily express readers.

    Holy fucking fuck. Hilarious! More please.

  32. Quim Terfel says:

    Christ, is he still here?

    PS: I own a house.

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